Solar Power..?

[12vman]

Any of you folks mess with solar power? I'm totally off grid and have been now for several years. My home almost totally operates on 12 volts D.C. I use an inverter sometimes like for running this lap top computer or to run a blender..


I Love The Sun

[WVsnowflake]

No but I have thought about it but I dont know that much about it. I can't convince Hubby to look into it with me . He just doesn't get this off grid _completely business



I can say I have a solar dryer tho ;D

[12vman]

Yep.. Gots one of those too..

[Sunny]

12 volt?

Just like livin' on a sailboat...but stationary.

[olhillbilly]

I hava question for ya.

What are you using for telephone hookup/internet?

You using an uplink via satalite, or still connected to grid via phoneline?

And no Im not alt-energy yet. I did swipe a inverter outtta an old ambulance tho.
Looks to me bout the most expenive deal is the battery bank. Unless you can get a good deal on golfcart batteries. or can find a commercial grade UPS, that they're swappin out.
Did read somewhere, where old scrap solar panels are gettin easier to find, now that they're upgrading and becoming more advanced in ther construction. Seen somewhere they've got the photovoltics integrated in roofing products. Tho I'd settle for a big cumbersome panel if it were cheap enuff.
I was told that any perminate magnet (PM) motor would work as a generator. Something about diode placement? (I'm alittle electronically challenged )
Any thoughts? I'm open for discussion

[12vman]

I'm using a phone line to get online. I had to run 2200' of line to get to the pole..

As far as usin' one of those "Eyes in the Sky".. it just costs too much and they fade during storms like them pay TV dishes..

I have cell phone service but that's expensive too. I could connect through that but the hardline is the cheapest way to go..

Ill bet that inverter that you got from that ambulance is a really good one. They use top grade stuff when they build 'um..

I got my batteries at Sam's Club for $46 each. They're the 6-volt golf cart ones. That's a pretty good price and they last for 5 yrs.. or more..

I wish I could find some of them old panels. I'd be grabbin' 'um.. I build projects and use small panels just to light a few L.E.D.'s for effect lighting.. ;D

[olhillbilly]

I've read where you can use a copper ground rod and a zinc rod to light an LED. Read since then where you could use a chain link fence pole, since they're zinc coated.


I found somethin else interesting. Lemme see where I put it....

Here, take a gander at this an tell me if this makes any sense?
www.nuenergy.org/alt/radiant_energy_diatribe.htm

Have found two other articles about this type of thing, online.
I asked an old HF friend bout the wires creating a charge an he said "hell yeah, it'll knock yer socks off". So there must be sumthin to it.

[12vman]

Hay hb..

That just seems to be static build up. The voltages can get very high but there isn't much current to work with. It'll build up huge amounts of voltage but there isn't any reserve to talk about. For a short jolt.. it's great but in this case, I'm from Mo. too.. Gotta show me.. ;D

[olhillbilly]

So I can build a tazer thingy with three hunderd feet antennas.

Woohoo, think of all the money I can save by not buying 9 volts batteries ;D

[Nutmeg]

Hey 12v..

Good to see ya sharin your stuff here too.. What a sweetie..

Nutmeg

[12vman]

Hay, Nutmeg..

I wanna see EVERYONE with solar panels hangin' EVERYWHERE! I guess that's why I go to so many places and share what I have learned. I'm tryin' to bust all of the misconceptions that everyone seems to have on this stuff. It ain't brain surgery and it don't need to cost as much as some will try to lead ya to believe. The secret is to downsize a bunch and be humble with the
luxuries that a small system can provide. Planning and in steps.. That's what I'M talkin' about..

[Nutmeg]

12v..

I think its GREAT... I'll be off grid one day.. I saw a place www.homesteadsforsale.com/larry.htm cannot beat that deal.. 104 acres.. off grid home.. barn.. ectra ectra $64,000. US or $75,000. cdn..

Nutmeg

[olhillbilly]

12v,
I too think Alt-energy is the way to go, or get to eventually. And yeah the prices of settin up a system scare ya. Initial prices, anyhow. (oh an some folks just like they're luxury, like AC)
Gettin converted over to grid-free, well, unless ya find stuff like Owie does, The price of a gas fridge aint cheap. And the price for a 2000watt setup no matter whether wind or solar or hydro will make ya bat yer eyes. I dont think it would take 2k for me, but most is what they figger that for an average.
Myself I average about 35 bucks (giver take) a month for power. Some folks would be thrilled with that. I use about a hunderd bucks of propane a year. Phone an internet kinda sucks, but its cheaper than gas an I can meet more people.

So maybe we orta break this down .... the bare minimum of converting over. Or at least heading in that direction.


Nutmeg,
I just got a Dignam catalog an theres some wunnerful looking and priced properties in Canada. Cept after reading that it takes an act of god to get into canada. I reckon I'll just stay here an complain bout the heat an the ticks ;D

[12vman]

My problem was that the power co. wanted 7k to bring their lines back here. They said that they would break that cost down into the monthly bill with my useage..

I decided at that time that it would be cheaper in the long run to go with solar power. I started buying panels.. one at a time untill I had enough to actually do something with. My first set up was 200 watts. That was 4 panels at 50 watts each. At the time, the panels cost $250 each. It took me about a year to gather the 4 panels up. Then I bought a charge controller for $120 which would handle the 4 panels. That's where I screwed up! I shoulda bought a larger controller so when I decided to grow my system, I wouldn't need to buy another one. But, anyhow, I ran that system for 4 years and figured what I really needed to live within my comfort zone. Of course, I needed more and started all over again..

With my income tax return one year, I bought 4 Unisolar 64 watt panels. I got a great deal for them at $320 each. Of course, that ate my return check and some extra but I got them. This time when I got another charge controller, I planned on twice the size of panel array. Took me a few months to get that but it didn't cost much more than the first one. ($160) When the time was right, I tore the old system out and installed the new stuff. WOW!! Big difference! Only around 40 watts more but I did notice the difference. I ran this system with the thought of getting more panels when my budget would allow. I finally bought 4 more of the Unisolar 64's. Everything was in place with the wiring, controller, ect. and all I needed to do was mount them and connect to the already in place panels. Made the job much easier the second time..

That said, with the system I operate now, not including the 400 watt starter system, I have less than 6k invested...complete! It took me 4 years to gather everything up but just planning for what I wanted and needed made it possible..

I run a propane fridge that came from a camper that was in an accident. I got it for $100 and it was almost new. I got a propane stove at a second hand store for $100 and still use it. Same with the fridge..

I would be totally in heaven with a 2000 watt system! My point is ya don't need that much to live a comfortable life if ya got the guts to throw the air conditioning away. I understand that with a family one would use more power but even with 1000 watts of panel, this could be done. I have 512 watts of panel and I have most everything I need..

[olhillbilly]

So howcome ya aint usin the previous 4 panels? Thatd boost ya to 712. Or is other factors playin in there. like mounting space etc. ?
Oh yeah, how many batteries ya got in yer bank? Am told thats a perty important part, havin several batteries. I know ya need a few, but how many for an average starter setup?

So for those that hava a hunderd dollar light bill, in five years you can be bill free. Itd be like buyin a new car an after five years not payin for anymore gas. ;D

Well, thanks for breakin that down. That gives folks alil better picture of what it entails.

Ive always been interested in bein totalally independant, but lack of immediate neccesity an toss in some procrastination an, well, I'm still gatherin stuff an info.
I gotta brand new 12v fan still in box. is a radiator fan for a small car. I figgered thatd come in handy.
I'd like to know more bout wiring, like diodes and capacitors and where they go to do what.
Im satisfied in thinkin that theres more than one way to harness the energy around us, as opposed to goin to the retail store an buyin brand new stuff.

Thanks for listening to me ramble.

Im gonna go herd ticks an look for mushrooms

later

[12vman]

Yea, I could connect the other system in with this one but I have plans for it. I now use 2 of them on my front porch to charge a couple batteries that I picked up at my job. We do communications towers and I get some of the old batteries that are being replaced. They have some years on them but they still have some life left in them. I use this porch system just for some small lighting and a car stereo for some jams while I cook on the fire..

The other 2 I have loaned out to a friend that I got all fired up with this stuff. He recently bought some of his own and will be installing them and I will get mine back. I have a 13' Shasta camper that I have wired sorta like my house but in a smaller version that I set up and display the possiblities of solar. That's where the other 2 will go back to. I use the camper as a tool to teach with. It's only 100 watts but it works. I've used it before but took the panels off to help my friend out..

I only use 4-6 volt golf cart batteries to operate my whole house. I bought them at Sam's Club for $46 each. That's a great price and they always have them so they're easy to find if ya need one..

If you have a charge controller, you don't need to worry about diodes if all of the panels get direct sunlight on all of them without no shadows on any of them. If one has some shade and the others are not, the shaded one them becomes a load and will steal power. Thats when you need to put a diode on each panel. The diode is a "check valve" to only allow power to leave the panel and not to go back into it. The charge controller is the "diode" between the batteries and the panels. The charge controller stops the batteries from overcharging and stops the power from the batteries going back up to the panels at night. Ya gotta have one..

Ya don't need any capacitors nowhere unless you're using a large car stereo amp..

The wiring is easy. All you need to always remember is "Pos" and "Neg".. Most all low voltage stuff must be connected with the correct "Polarity" the first time or it will be junk! It don't matter for light bulbs but for everything else, It's very important! With A.C.
stuff, it doesn't matter. You can reverse the wires and everything will be ok but D.C. is a different animal. Also, with low voltage D.C. you will use much larger wiring to get good power for any distance from the battery to where ya want to use it. I have 2ga. copper running the length of my home. It's like "Stinger Cable" on a welder. It's pricey but ya gotta have it. I tap from these large wires with smaller wire to my cigar lighter outlets. And don't forget fuses..

[olhillbilly]

sorry i didnt get in here any sooner.

When I was speaking of capacitors an diodes, I wasnt just speaking of solar power. I would like to know more about them. I keep seein them in lil projects I read about. its kinda like plumbin, if ya dont know where to put certain things, ya might as well throw it out the window. ;D

About this part here>>quote"If you have a charge controller, you don't need to worry about diodes if all of the panels get direct sunlight on all of them without no shadows on any of them. If one has some shade and the others are not, the shaded one them becomes a load and will steal power. Thats when you need to put a diode on each panel."quote<<
I have shade and dont plan on cuttin very many trees for a panel. I do however have wind. (no comments needed from the cheering section ;D )
And intend on experimenting some with that, someday. (I dont mean lighting farts either )

You write perty good.

I'll ask ya sumthin else when I think of it.

[olhillbilly]

Hey, I gotta question for ya.

How do you figger the wattage output of sumthing?

My tester checks for voltage in both AC an DC. And checks Ohms an continunity. Everything says how many watts its output is. Like yer panels etc. I know theres a formula. and Even knowing that I aint sure I know how to figger it. I missed algerbra.


Thaks Teach, in advance ;D

[olhillbilly]

oh and one more thing, I found this about the static line I posted awhile back>>>

mark Ransley" <[e-mail] > wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...

> Are you saying a pvc capacitor with an antenna will collect energy from
> the air, free energy.
>

It will collect a little... It's the same kind of static energy that is
collected on Outside Radio Antennas, during some time of the year....You
can also see this energy on the masts of some sailing ships..... it is
called St. Elmo's Fire...

Gig




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



Date: 29 Oct 2003 23:36:17
From: Mitch Dickson
Subject: Re: eer Gigawatt

> > Are you saying a pvc capacitor with an antenna will collect energy from
> > the air, free energy.
> >
>
> It will collect a little... It's the same kind of static energy that is
> collected on Outside Radio Antennas, during some time of the year....You
> can also see this energy on the masts of some sailing ships..... it is
> called St. Elmo's Fire...
>
> Gig
>


You can collect more than a little! I am a extra class ham and used to have
a 580 foot loop up 65 feet. When the wind is blowing vast amounts of static
collect on the antenna. It will weld the fillings in you teeth together if
you get hold of it when it is ungrounded!

I took a high voltage cap and connected the ground to the ground of a 12
volt deep cycle and the positive I connected to a spark plug and the
antenna. The bottom of the spark plug ran into an old Ford coil and the
botton of the coil was connected to the plus of the battery. At times this
would charge that deep cycle in less than 8 hours!!!! I have seen that
spark plug fire almost constantly.

One night in a blizzard with the wind blowing I saw it light up a 117 volt
neon lamp and kept that puppy lit all night!!! No battery was connected at
the time either!

Tesla got a pattent on just such a device. He called it a "Fuel-less
Generator".

This ain't new though boys. Willey Almond, and old General Class showed me
how to hook it up long ago. He said they were very poor back in the
depression. They connected an old telegraph wire in such a fashion that ran
up the track about 500 yards or so and charged up old car batteries because
they were too poor to afford to buy batteries to run their radio.

It pays to listen when them old men talk! Some of them be right smart

C YA

Mitch
--
"Come by and sit a spell with me at www.volstate.net/~mitch/ "

[e-mail]
"Gigawatt" <[e-mail] > wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
>
> "mark Ransley" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
> news:[e-mail]...
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----





Date: 30 Oct 2003 09:05:07
From: Gigawatt
Subject: Re: eer Gigawatt


"Mitch Dickson" <[e-mail] > wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
> > > Are you saying a pvc capacitor with an antenna will collect energy
from
> > > the air, free energy.
> > >
> >
> You can collect more than a little! I am a extra class ham and used to
have
> a 580 foot loop up 65 feet. When the wind is blowing vast amounts of
static
> collect on the antenna. It will weld the fillings in you teeth together
if
> you get hold of it when it is ungrounded!
>
> I took a high voltage cap and connected the ground to the ground of a 12
> volt deep cycle and the positive I connected to a spark plug and the
> antenna. The bottom of the spark plug ran into an old Ford coil and the
> botton of the coil was connected to the plus of the battery. At times
this
> would charge that deep cycle in less than 8 hours!!!! I have seen that
> spark plug fire almost constantly.
>
> One night in a blizzard with the wind blowing I saw it light up a 117 volt
> neon lamp and kept that puppy lit all night!!! No battery was connected
at
> the time either!

That is exactly what I had in mind.... after the high voltage cap and
sparkplug, I wanted to feed the voltage into the high end of an automotive
coil...to lower the voltage a bit.... then run it through a Full Wave
Rectifiyer Bridge, and then into some deep cycle batteries I have.... I am
off grid now, using PV panels for my main power supply for my Deep Cycle
Batteries, and for my home power supply and another source of power might
come in handy during cloudy weather...
>
> Tesla got a pattent on just such a device. He called it a "Fuel-less
> Generator".

I would like to get a copy of his patent.... maybe somebody has it posted on
a web page...
>
> This ain't new though boys. Willey Almond, and old General Class showed
me
> how to hook it up long ago. He said they were very poor back in the
> depression. They connected an old telegraph wire in such a fashion that
ran
> up the track about 500 yards or so and charged up old car batteries
because
> they were too poor to afford to buy batteries to run their radio.
>
> It pays to listen when them old men talk! Some of them be right smart

--------------------------------------------------------

[Sunny]

olhillbilly said:

Hey, I gotta question for ya.

How do you figger the wattage output of sumthing?

My tester checks for voltage in both AC an DC. And checks Ohms an continunity. Everything says how many watts its output is. Like yer panels etc. I know theres a formula. and Even knowing that I aint sure I know how to figger it. I missed algerbra.


Thaks Teach, in advance ;D

Volts x Amps = Watts, darlin' ...
Watts / Volts = Amps

And make a list of every electrical item you own and write the watts down (or tape the #s to the appliance/tool, etc.)...important to have on hand both before and after installing a system (AC with inverter or DC, both are dependent on the loads)

Don't forget that some motors surge when startin' up, so if you're plannin' on an inverter, you've got to take that into consideration when it comes to size.

And your question 'bout the "charge controller"...just think "voltage regulator".

The golf cart batteries are usually "deep cycle", so in theory they'll last longer than regular car batteries.

Check out the used marine equipmet sites for a wind generator, Hilly...lots of times you can get 'em cheap and bein' in the woods, you might not be as concerned about vibration or noise level (they kinda hum) as when you're on the water (tryin' to sleep down below or with neighbors right off your bow in a crowded harbor)

Check with your highway department...they might have obsolete/excess solar panels...stolen ones usually run about $100 for a 40W and $250 for a 120W in NY, ummmm, so I gathered through the grapevine once upon a time But you really need SUN, hon. ;D